If the jobs last 17 years in Poland it will be a good run. Ireland adopted the Euro, if Poland does the same then they could be in trouble real soon...

...... these poles...... staying at home...... nicking all the jobs......lol.

All those foreigners, staying over there and taking our jobs..... grumble, moan....

Anon because of all those with no sense of humour

Not a name you usually here when it comes to manufacturing.

The strange reason I'm mentioning this is because I found a Cadburys Brunchbar in my lunchbox this morning (Thank you wife) with the words "Made in Poland" on it, how odd.

Maybe Poland is going to be the next big player in manufacturing stuff.

On a serious note, poor luck for the people at Dell losing their jobs, happened to me about 10 years ago, while it can be a horrible experience it gave me a chance to go and find a job I really wanted.

I wish them all the best.

Whilst I feel awful for the people who are going to be affected (not just in DELL but in the satellite industries) we've had it coming for a long time - we sat around talking about how great our economy was, how clever we were (spending the EU's money to offer tax incentives to foreign industry, oh indeed we are "cute hoors" as we say) and now look at us.

It's about time we actually started to learn how to be really competitive again, stop taking our jobs and lifestyles for granted, and stop relying on the same old system which, although it served us well in past years, is simply not good enough any more.

We simply need to to become good at something else now. Like maybe, Slavic languages ;)

GIven the invocation of Knut, did the Irish delegation travel to visit Mr Dell in the full knowledge that they would fail, and they could prove to the Irish populace that they are no match for the glory that is Dell corporation?

"....Defence Minister Willie O'Dea....."

Presumably there was a bit of stick on offer as an alternative to any carrots then?

The die was cast long before this, so long that some higher-up Dell employees purchased property close to the new site in Poland to rent out to Dell's new workers.

Limerick is Willie O'Dea's (or Dillie O'Wea, look on Google for a picture to explain) constituency.

Limerick (East) is the consituency / representative area of Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea, thats why he was on the delegation. Mary Coughlan is the Tainiste which means Deputy Prime Minister when translated to English, she is also the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

These job losses are an economic disaster for Limerick and the Mid-West Region of Ireland. Everyone here in Limerick knows at least a couple of hands full of people who work for Dell or local companies supplying Dell.

My brother works for Banta Global Turnkey / RR Donnelly in Limerick who supplies Dell and he was told this morning that his ob is gone as well.

Tough times ahead for my city, an jobs are scarce as it is.

so now they will transfer the jobs as well as the prices!

ps - jobs are available for 2 dells an hour - teaching English to Poles

and..

Customer Care will now shurely move to Warsaw

How true; I remember a friend who worked there whose wife was over in Poland 8 years ago helping to setup the Manufacturing plant which even back then was earmarked as the replacement for the Limerick plant.

Like I said, we had it coming.

@TeeCee: the reason why the defence minister was sent it because he's from and based in Limerick and about the only politician we have who actually has the interests of the area at heart.

I did a job at Raheen a few years ago, there are a lot of suppliers clustered around the dell factory. For example, Banta package up the boxes with manuals/DVDs/packing etc - all these jobs will go as well. Plus all the indirect knock-on, taxis, pubs, hotels etc. I would say this is a real disaster for Limerick.

I had a good time there, the canteen did a cracking fry-up and there was a fair bit of talent on the offices.

Good luck to everyone in finding new work

Can't say I appreciate the comment - "Irish tiger was shown to be just another costly overfed western European tabby cat which could be replaced by a skinnier Polish moggy". I can think of very few countries that have had the meteoric rise Ireland has experienced over the past decade. In truth I can't think of any!

I know that manufacturing were paying just 50 cents per hour some years ago in Poland.

Sounds like sour grapes to me!

Laptops are up maybe 45% desktops down 45%.

Almost all the Assembly of a Laptop is in China. That more than Poland has killed the Limerick Plant.

Many of these people had unskilled jobs (pointy end of screw driver and which way up an open box goes is explained when you join.

The Dell Plus folk and package/ builders/testers for the automated installs are very expert. They may be providing expertise to Poland for the next few years and eventually replaced by Polish staff. Most of the Poles I meet in Ireland are very highly skilled so it might not take long.

.

Is El Reg going to provide a translation service so that we can grok those Polish limericks?

There once was a man from Tashkent,

Who had a .... uh, no sorry, wrong "forum".

Towards the end of the previous century I bought some Dell boxes that came with rather spiffy monitors. The tubes were Trinitron that were made in a Sony factory in Wales. These were then shipped to Finland and placed in cases in a Nokia factory. From there they were sent to Dell in Ireland and then whole package was shipped to me in London.

No amount of EU subsidies was going to make that exercise in stupidity last forever. I'm afraid the Celtic Tiger was built on dreams, not realities.

Mine's the one with the subsidy under one arm and Dell pig under the other.

There once was a company called Dell

Their business was once going well

But their factory closed

with the economy hosed

and the last line had a bit of a smell

With limericks like that, you can see *why* they closed.

My company was offered various incentives by official bodies in Eire to move our operations to Ireland. These included VERY generous incentives including NO INCOME TAX for company directors for a number of years. As a Scorsman, of course I love the Irish. We are Celts.

I didn't take up the offers as I owned the factory I worked from and my employees had family and friends in the area, so wouldn\t have wanted to move. Anyway, the deal was to provide employment in Ireland, not to take your workforce to live there. So it wasn't for me.

I feel fairly sure that lots of execs would have taken the deal and moved on when it expired. As someone at the top end of a company I have to meet and deal with all sorts of directors and managers. I grade them in the following way:-

Bottom --- wouldn't let him into my office -- see him in reception --- don't want to trade with them

.

Lower Middle --- Five minutes in the office -- count fingers if shacking hands is unavoidable -- don't give credit..

Middle -- Typical type -- self-interest and greed written on the forehead -- avoid giving any special incentives to purchase -- consider carefully before giving credit -- not really too good for our company if people know we deal with them.

Upper Middle -- Happy to deal with them -- don't want them as friends -- probably give credit.

Lower Top -- They can have my mobile number -- they are welcome in my office -- delighted to do business with them and consider them to be 'pals', so, yes, would be pleased to have dinner with them in a restaurant.

Top -- very few of these --- I invite them to my house for dinner -- I like having them as friends -- they treat their employees properly and they don't pay themselves obscene amounts of money --they pay the tax they owe without bending the rules -- they ALWAYS pay their suppliers ON TIME.

What would I say about Dell ? Anyone who cares about their Irish workforce and the huge incentives paid out by Ireland to get themselves screwed by the greedy should now ask themselves -- if I need a computer, is it morally supportable to buy a Dell ? I think that the answer from anyone who would be invited into my house is a loud and clear NO !

Great stuff from David, but I'm wary of any argument which includes the phrase "morally supportable".

If it really was feasible for the world to embrace that notion, there'd be no Microsoft.

Actually, come to think of it, there'd be no world left to support anyway: no Government anywhere, elected or unelected, meets that criterion.

Ahh yes - They put profits and shareholders before their staff. It would be nice if Dell folded completely then they would stop sending junk mail to my deceased wife. The first time it happened, it was such a major chore getting them to even reply to my complaints but they did promise that no more would be sent - but then more started to turn up and I have to once more start banging on the various Dell email addresses trying to get then to stop. Their customer service centre in India is total crap and it is so difficult to get the name of a senior person to whom a complaint can be sent.

When will it all end?

"The huge incentives paid out by Ireland" were actually the subsidies from EU net contributing nations:

http://www.finfacts.ie/comment/irelandeunetreceiptsbenefits.htm

re: David's comment

By VulcanV5 Posted Friday 9th January 2009 12:51 GMT

Great stuff from David, but I'm wary of any argument which includes the phrase "morally supportable". Posted Friday 9th January 2009 12:51 GMT

Thank you VulcanV5 for the nice comment. Maybe I could have worded my comments better and avoided the use of 'morally', but the point is that the incentives are paid by ordinary peoples' taxes and that most execs and shareholders AVOID paying tax through the use of 'professional advisors' and therefore can't even claim to be taking back some of their own money ! I think Microsoft is a different argument, but my company doesn't use their products either ! :)

By MahatmaCoat Posted Friday 9th January 2009 17:57 GMT

"The huge incentives paid out by Ireland" were actually the subsidies from EU net contributing nations:

Absolutely !! As I said above, money from the little person ! Almost like being a serf back in the Middle Ages --- I supose a touch of the forelock is going a bit far --- or is it ? :)

I am reminded of 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall !! Or, the richer they are, the more they'll miss it when it evaporates. I simply believe in fair pay for fair work and, whilst I think that those who start companies should be paid a little more --- maybe their house was put at risk to get the finance, etc. --- I don't think the differentials seen in business today are justified by any stretch of the imagination ! In the UK we have a legal minimum wage which was brought in because some employers were simply exploiting their workers. If the employers were as decent as I wish they were, the thought of having a MAXIMUM legal wage simply wouldn't cross my mind --- but it does !!

They tell us that the major cost in manufacturing is labour. Okay, so move to Poland and reduce that cost to a TENTH of what it was. Will the price now reflect that difference, or will the Execs and shareholders milk the money cow ? Remember, labour is a MAJOR cost in production, so I am looking for a HUGE DROP IN PRICE !! Am I seeing that ? Maybe its me ! Am I getting too old to see something that I am missing here ?

Well they told us excepting more member states would be good for us and as usual we had no say either, you are now seeing just how good it is for us. My local area has also lost jobs due to Poland!