i saw a whole flock of pigs fly by this morning... After Micro$oft now we also have $un

All extraneous software/services should be OPT-IN. Anything else is malware and loading due to uninformed consent.

Christ, Sun, Apple, Google and Microsoft are as bad as each other some times!

Can we please have a guesstimate how many Windows machines DON'T have Internet Explorer installed??!! Go on, take a stab in the dark there :-\

It totally sucks that so many of these common applications (e.g. flash player, java JRE etc.) come bundled with "opt-out" installers for unrelated programs. The amount of times I sit at someone's PC and see shortcuts to "install openoffice" and the stinking yahoo toolbar that primarily, the customer does not want.

Sure they should have un-checked the box on install, but this "opt-out" mentality preys on the novice user who just click next -> next -> next without reading anything and ends up in the customer's PC being cluttered with stuff they didn't ask for and don't want.

how much this has to do with google taking openoffice out of google pack?

<RANT> I repair PCs in the home. So see normal, dumb, lusers. And my God is the average user dumb. No one has ever taught them how to use a PC, and generally they are scared to change ANYTHING.

So the average home PC has two or three toolbars already. (Client last week had SIX!!!) Adobe Acrobat installs Google, And now we have Sun whacking MSN (Or is it Yahoo?) onto the machines. Gawd only knows where the "ASK" toolbar is poopping up from.

These adverts should be OPT-IN only. i.e. the user should have to tick the box if he\she wants the item. Then, if they don't understand what it is, they are not forced to install it. (Or pointlessly download OpenOffice when they also don't want that)

And why does Java NOT remove it's old versions? The average home luser machine is covered with multiple installs of Java, and multiple versions of the installer. All eating into disk space.

These companies forget who own these machines. It's not as if I drive into a petrol station, and then drive out again towing advertising hoardings.... but that is near enough what they force on people with this crud.

</RANT> (Where is the "steam from ears" icon?) Anon 'cos I know my clients are reading. And I shouldn't really complain - if it wasn't for id10t lusers, I wouldn't have a job.

Gawd only knows where the "ASK" toolbar is poopping up from.

I think you meant pooping.

I'm pretty sure that it will only install the toolbar if you are using IE to connect, not if you just have IE installed. The Yahoo tool bar goes to Firefox users.

Wow.

That would explain their MySQL and Other software services bringing in 34+ million last qtr.

Note that they were trying to give the impression that it was MySQL revenue, however, this "opt-out software download" isn't free to Microsoft. They *are* paying Sun per each download where the user accepts the install.

Just goes to show you how desperate Sun is to get revenue ...

Erm, don't most "latest version" browsers have the functions these provide built in? I am sure most punters running JRE will be upto date with their Firefox/Opera/IE* delete as appropriate.

Java's a fine product that they're giving away. If that is how they want to monitize it, then I say good luck.

If you don't want the software, uncheck the box. If your time is too valuable to spend reading a line of text on an installer, then by all means, let the browser tool be an indication for others of what kind of person you are. Or hire someone who knows what they're doing to do things for you.

If I am using a computer that has lots of toolbars on the browser, then I know the person doesn't know what the hell they're doing. In that sense, the toolbars provide great information if you know how to use it.

Sheesh, for bloody years companies have been using this 'checked by default' subterfuge to install third-party software, and it's only when a Microsoft add-on is involved that someone decides to write an article intended to incite the pitchfork wielding plebians...

Drop the bigoted attitudes, hell it's not even bigoted, it's more like racism in the software industry! If you're going to bitch and whine when checkboxes are enabled by default then bitch and whine with equal ferocity at ALL software developers.

How about boxes with no AV protection whatsoever? Either (a) they haven't got any installed, or (b) the three month trial of SAV has expired...

Oh, the joys of when I worked on a helldesk - remoting over to their computer, killing every process and service I don't recognise, installing a proper AV client, then grabbing a coffee whilst Spybot (small download, useful for getting a rough idea of how trashed their system is) racks up all the usual suspects - before it gets anywhere near the cookies folder (the classic way some anti malware over reports - count every tracking cookie as an infection!)

Half an hour later, getting peed off because I've got other calls to do, inform them they'll need a chargeable engineer visit...

Meanwhile the other day I discovered a luser who'd decided to get rid of SAV (yay!) - only to replace it with AVG Free (oh dear!) - but still thought Windows Defender was a proper firewall (this gets worse!) And the luser? A former school ICT Coordinator...from a business background...

Toolbars are at best, adware, and at worst, spyware. Intelligent individuals know how to type google.com, yahoo.com, or even ssl.scroogle.org into their browsers and they know how to set bookmarks and their home pages if needed often enough. Intelligent individuals do not want crap clogging up their operating systems, browsers, or other oft used applications. Finally, intelligent individuals do not want a toolbar monopolizing their search engine experience.

On the other hand, ignoramuses thoughtlessly install any old crap riding the coattails of anything else they thoughtlessly install. Without ignoramuses we wouldn't have a world full of zombie computers spewing viagra, mortgage, and poker spam.

Isn't it time to require operator's licenses for computers?

absolutely nothing.

I still wind up having to remove at least 2 toolbars a year from the systems I repair.

You'd think that for what they pay me to fix their broken systems, my users would learn . . . but they don't.

The penguin, because my (l)users are scared to death of it.

I've never had an answer from Sun as to why the Java Update scheduler widget under Windows runs continuously - whereas it could just run each time at startup and then die.

Just another annoyance ...

Has anyone else noticed the license agreement for the Yahoo toolbar is skipped? It specifically says "By clicking 'I Agree' below..." but do you see such a button?

License-free yahoo toolbar anyone?

-- Richard

You mean the browser that was the first one to pass the latest Acid test? The one that adhere's to web standards? The one Ballmer recently verbally toyed with adopting?

Just because you didn't like the fact that Apple included it in its download (which it shouldn't have done) doesn't make the browser second rate. Get over your ridiculous anti-anything-Apple bias.

I wish there was a law about NOT installing programs that are not necessary for the programs you are installing. It is what a trojan program does, and it reduces the value of the program being installed - and reduces the consumer confidence in that company.

"Christ, Sun, Apple, Google and Microsoft are as bad as each other some times!"

OK, we've got the Jesus phone, but surely that's as close as Christ gets to being as bad as the others. It's Christian (funda)mentalists that piggyback bigotry, extreme right wing politics et al on the back of a message of peace and love, not the Guv'nor.

@B: Safari isn't noted as being one of the best browsers, that's pretty widely accepted, I know many Mac users who easily choose Firefox over it, so maybe you're the one who needs to get over it, but, you know, use what you like. I just prefer a browser that didn't crash a lot is all, and that was my experience with it, not to mention I just don't care about Safari any way and like Firefox and it's features and plug-ins much better, but to each their own.

@Darren B: I like your response the best. Who in the hell ever installs these stupid toolbars any way? I'm very capable of clicking on my Firefox quick search box thank you, I don't need a massive bar taking up page real estate, let alone ads if any.

Penguin, cause it's shit like this that I love not having to deal with, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I have to start complaining too as Linux becomes more ad targeted. ;)